Thursday, October 28, 2010

3rd House on Mango Street discussion

Consider the vignettes we've recently read.
Post questions here.
Make connections to previous discussions.
Make inferences concerning these characters and the conflicts that continue to develop.
Think about the conversations we’ve had about human rights, the American Dream, gender struggles related to certain cultures and socioeconomic levels. If you need some help getting started, answer some of these questions.

§What are some hard lessons Esperanza learns in this section?

§In “No Speak English”, what is the first physical characteristic that Esperanza notices and again mentions when she sees Mamacita? What does this fact help us understand about gender and and hope and opportunities for women?

§What does Rafaela ask the girls to buy her that they hoist up to her on a clothesline? What is Cisneros' concern about girls and marriage (from this section)?

§How is Sally treated at home? What does this vignette help us understand about safety and Mango Street and the future?

§Why does Esperanza want to be “Beautiful and Cruel”?

117 comments:

  1. Sally gets abused by her father so safety on Mango street doesn't sound very good

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  2. well nobody really ever watches over their kids because they have so many so safety wouldnt be good

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  3. yes, dludiker, plus earl is able to hire prostitutes and no one seems to care

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  4. Now we know that the girl that goes to Earl's is a prostitute

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  5. i agree with dludiker, there are obviously problems with the safetey of mango street, both physical safety and mental safety

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  7. why doesn't the mom just leave and try to get into an opera if she loves it so much?

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  8. Nobody monitors what there kids are doing so safety doesnt really cross the parents on Mango Street mind.

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  9. it isnt good for the kids to see this going on with earl

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  10. Nobody cares their worried about theirself

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  11. earl of Tennessee, correct b mackey?

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  12. sally gets the crap beaten out of her

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  13. I also know that the sire is a creeper

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  14. Esperanza wants to be beautiful and cruel because she wants some people to love her and some to hate her

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  15. earl i agree but the way she acts dosen't help

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  16. There are lots of safety concerns on Mango street but does it seem like anyone actually cares? people don't seem to show any concern about whats going on

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  17. why do you think rafaela doesn't go outside?

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  18. Safety for the female gender is for sure a concern on the mango especially with shady gentlemen such as the baby napper or Earl from Tennessee wo is a pimp per-say

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  19. esperanza seems to have different values than most girls in this book

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  20. brendan whos sire why is he a creeper

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  21. people aren't concerned with other peoples kids because they already have problems of their own

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  22. I think Cisneros is trying to tell us all the dangers of a neighborhood like this.Esperanza is faced with danger all around her,but what can she do but wait, and get and education. Esperanza doesn't have any control over where she lives at the moment.She has to wait until she can go to college to a get her own job and her own house, in a good neighborhood.

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  23. no dludiker, no one is concerned about safety on mango street and thats why the kids hang out by a whore house.

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  24. I think that Esperanza is like Mamacita because they both feel like they don't belong. They both miss their homes. In "No Speak English" i think it can show that women don't have many opportunities in the U.S. The men are the ones that provide for their family.

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  25. Nobody really seems to care except for esperanza cause she is the only one who is not used to the problems everyone else is used to it

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  26. Why does Earl have so many records at his house and why does he give them out to Esperanza and her family?

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  28. devin, i agree with ur saftey comment. because there is also a baby napper on the block as well and the almost got kidnapped by the guy that liked their high heels.

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  29. I think rafaela doesnt go outside because its not safe.

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  30. if earl wants a young girl to be his prostitute would the girls fall for it with out really knowing what will happened yes or no

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  31. Rafaela has the kids buy her papaya juice. Esperanza is concerned about being locked up in a house and sad.

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  32. yeah thats true because all of the women have it almost seems like at least 5 children.

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  33. i agree with shutmacher's comment, female security does seem to be a theme in these vignettes per-say

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  34. I think that the women on Mango street are really left to fend for themselves. With all the different and rude men they really don't have a choice in anything they do.

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  35. srivas i think that the girls might fall for it

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  36. every girl thing about girls that have been brought up so far has been negative, except about sally

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  37. I agree with you ktaylor. I wouldn't want to go outside either, its not safe at all.

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  38. thankyou for the support earl i look forward to meeting you in the first person point of view

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  39. Let's be clear in a couple of places.
    Yes, people have concerns of their own, but I don't think that all the parents are careless. Esperanza's parents send her to a private school, provide a house, and work all the time so their children can have a future. So, there are examples of good parents, struggling parents, like Rosa Vargas, and bad parents, like Sally's father. Not everyone in the book is all bad or all good. Think about the gray areas of humanity.

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  40. msexton, i think that earl has so many records at his house because he appreciates many types of music, and has a lot of money from his line of proffesion, as a pimp per-say

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  41. yes chandler, it does seem like Esperanza cares about peoples problems on the street.

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  42. The four skinny trees are the only ones that understand Esperanza

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  43. i think female safety is only a concern because all the guys on mango street just use the girls for sex.

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  44. Do you think towards the end of the story that it will be a safer environment and more people will be concerned about what happens?

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  45. mtatro, can sally really go to college with the way she is treated on mango street?

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  46. where be marin in all of this and do you children think she will become one of earls girls per-say

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  47. I agree bcardoza nothing about anything has eally been positive.

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  48. why does Esperanza think she is so ugly and that no one will come for her??

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  49. No, Rafaela doesn't leave the house because he says it isnt safe for a girl so pretty.I think that her husband is actually just scared that Rafaela will run away from him and he wants to keep Rafaela all to himself.

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  50. I like the ideas of being "locked up"--how could that be a metaphor and a literal idea?

    How are these girls "locked up" in their desires and hopes?

    Also, think about Esperanza wanting to be both beautiful and cruel. Why that combination? What does it tell us about her self confidence and her ideas about power in the future?

    Ideas to share?

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  51. Why do all of the girls have such low self confidence per-say

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  52. lross said...

    why do you think rafaela doesn't go outside?
    I think the reason Rafaela doesn't go outside because she may be afraid of people, That, or she may not have a reason to go outside,her husband, it sounds provides for her well.

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  53. I agree with cazzam but the guys are in danger too if they get beat up

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  54. Because she isnt really locked up it's just used to show what the lifestyle is like.

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  55. I think Esperanza wants to be beautiful and cruel because guys pay attention to girls who are beautiful and cruel, just like in movies. I think all Esperanza wants is to be noticed.

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  56. Mysti, you are totally right. It relates back to ideas that Shayne and Bianca and Tori had. There is an idea that beauty is also connected to stupidity and disloyalty and untrustworthiness. Why might that be a false connection? What does it tell us about many of the men in this text?

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  57. karl great quote from the text per-say

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  58. in the beginning they talk about the house of girls. is that earls house?

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  59. Is Esperanza friends with Sally at all?

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  60. To Esperanzas familly a "home is a a house in a photograph, a pink house, pink as hollyhocks with lots of startled lights." But the american dream is a house with a white picket fence. so why is her "home" pink?

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  61. I agree with Taylor and Bianca, women get treated badly and portrayed negatively and they hide a lot

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  62. I don't think so scotty she probably wont want to accidentally have another child without a father again

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  63. Sally already does go to college...lross

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  64. i think esperanza wants to be beautiful so that she has the possibility of a future that marin envisions, but she wants to be cruel so she can remain powerful and independent

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  65. Yes, Brea. Esperanza sees beauty as being powerful in the sense that she can pull a boy in and then cruelty is also her ability to control a man, which she thinks would give her control over her life. What conflicts is Esperanza having here with her ideas about appearance, power, and self worth?

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  66. esperanza's main concern seems to be about houses.

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  67. ya I think she is at least a little ebarry there friends

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  68. Larson, quite right.

    Boys--focus. You're making comments without substance.

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  69. Maybe the womens confidence is probably low because of where they live and the disrespectful, rude and dirty men that hit on them.

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  70. it just doesnt make sense but im really making sense

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  71. the girls have no confidence because no one has given them any. all they hear is negative and telling them what they should do and what they can't do.plus the men don't really appreciate the women only a few do.

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  72. Kyle, love the question. Pink maybe for rosiness...happiness? Pink is also a girly color, so maybe she wants to be feminine and powerful?

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  73. I think Esperanza is waiting for someone to come get her

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  74. Do you think that Earl is really married? Do you think Mama is making it up?

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  75. Why does Minerva keep taking her husband back?

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  76. in the case of minerva, do you think that the entire community feels the same way that esperanza does, that they can't do anything?

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  77. ktaylor, I think when we say "white picket fence" we mean a cliche home or a home like everyone elses. So maybe she wants a pink house that it big and achieves the american dream but doesn't want a house like everyone else.

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  78. i think that esperanza could possibly be a male, he just thinks hes a girl because he could not accept being male

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  79. Shayne and Taylor--quite right. Good thinking.
    Sharon, Sally is definitely in danger; her father is abusive and controlling. Plus, she's looking to get out of her situation by making another bad choice of husband...at 14. Do you think she's ready?

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  80. i totally agree b mackey...i think she wants any boy she can get and that is why she might of kissed that guy when it was "his birthday"

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  81. They arnt really married thats just what they say

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  82. no knolanmccorkle i dont' think Earl is married cause everyone is seeing him with a different girl so he must have a lot of girls.

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  83. yes b mack she is like Repunsel waiting for a knight in shining armor to come to her and rescue her from the mango per-say

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  84. sally is treated really horibibly

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  85. Mysti--really cool idea about pink houses. yes.
    Earl--no; she's a girl. Stay focused. Be appropriate.

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  86. I think Esperanza will never become beautiful because she has no self confidence and thats how it is with the other girls on Mango street. Thats the reason why there is so much prostitution.

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  87. they aren't married because he just brings home prostitutes and isn't married to any of them.

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  88. sorry, just rattling off ideas.

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  89. ebarry i think she keeps taking her husband because she feel safe having a guy around

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  90. are there any guys that esparanza like?

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  91. nobody is ready to marry at 14

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  92. Being an avid watcher of scrubs, I was watchng one episode and it said You want what you can't have, and once you get what you want, you don't want it. Guys find it kind of attractive when girls play hard to get, Experanze realizes this, and is trying to do this. She is trying to be as much of an adult as she can, and by getting guys to like her, it's adult.

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  93. They mention another women in the book that is having problems too...Minerva. This shows more of what Esperanza might become.

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  94. can we do anything about the state of our low income areas? how can we improve them?

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  95. I agree with tkelln, i think their confidence is low because of what people tell them. They could also have low confidence because they are getting it into their head that they are worth nothing

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  96. if Esperanza didn't have a goal to be having a american dream what would she become would she end up like one of the girls that are alone hoping to have a man of a mother with 15 kids what would she become?

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