Thursday, October 28, 2010

House on Mango Street discussion

Consider the vignettes we've recently read.
Post questions here.
Make connections to previous discussions.
Make inferences concerning these characters and the conflicts that continue to develop.
Think about the conversations we’ve had about human rights, the American Dream, gender struggles related to certain cultures and socioeconomic levels. If you need some help getting started, answer some of these questions.

§What are some hard lessons Esperanza learns in this section?

§In “No Speak English”, what is the first physical characteristic that Esperanza notices and again mentions when she sees Mamacita? What does this fact help us understand about gender and and hope and opportunities for women?

§What does Rafaela ask the girls to buy her that they hoist up to her on a clothesline? What is Cisneros' concern about girls and marriage (from this section)?

§How is Sally treated at home? What does this vignette help us understand about safety and Mango Street and the future?

§Why does Esperanza want to be “Beautiful and Cruel”?

§Why does Esperanza’s mother say she dropped out of school? What does this teach Esperanza about the need for education?

§Why might the term “smart cookie” be ironic given this vignette?

§Because life is like *blank*, how do they each deal with this life differently? Explain now why you think Esperanza wants something different. Looking at these women’s situations, is it possible for them to have done things differently? If so, what could/should they have done differently? Could all of them have been released from this existence? If not, why not?

101 comments:

  1. In the chapter "Bums in the Attic", it relates to Esperanza and the American Dream. Esperanza desires the houses on the hill with the gardens, but she knows that she will never own one so she doesn't ever visits them again.

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  2. Why are sally's eyes so cool and different? Is it a disorder or are here eyes just like that?

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  3. Cisneros is concerned about not having a safe place to feel safe and be around people that car about her.
    Where do we see this in the text?

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  4. It seems like the American Dream is causing crime because all the Mexican immigrants want freedom and cool things.

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  5. i think her eyes are just like that. Its describing her visually and you would think her personality. Maybe she is cool and different

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  6. Why do all the girls in this story except for sally, Nenny, and Esperanza stay in side all day and not come out or talk to anyone?

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  7. Sally is treated like a prisoner at her house because of how pretty she is. he goes to school from school and to her house. This tells us that it is very UN-safe on mango street, because of this dangerous street she doesn't have a life because she is treated like she has to pass her life up!

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  8. Whats your opinion on all of the racial differences in this book? Do you feel like its okay for them to act this way?

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  9. mabey her eyes are not different

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  10. in "No Speak English" the first thing Esperanza notices about Mamacita is her tiny pink shoe. When she stepped out of the cab, Esperanza couldn't stop looking at her tiny shoes. I think this taught Esperanza that men expect women to always look their best and most of the women in her neighborhood do. Like Marin for example.

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  11. they have to stay inside all day because all of the other girls dads or husbands dont let them leave the house

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  12. In "The Family of Little Feet" why do people act in such a strange way when they see the girls wearing the shoes?

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  13. Why doesn't Esperanza think she can ever own a house on a hill?

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  14. In the chapter ''No speak English'' is about how immigrants coming to America must adapt to new cultures. And in this chapter it happens to mamacita which is a immigrant woman that does not fully accept that she must take on a new culture in this chapter it describes what these people go through to achieve the American dream.

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  15. Sadly, I think it will be an extra hard challenge for Esperanza to be successful because of where she lives and her race.

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  16. It makes the girls look older, so all the guys like girls that are still young but also spunky.

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  17. Esperanza learns in the Vignette, "The Family of Little Feet" that growing up is scary and that she is not ready to grow up yet.

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  18. they act that way because they see them as adults and not children.

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  19. What does Rafaela ask the girls to buy her that they hoist up to her on a clothesline? What is Cisneros' concern about girls and marriage (from this section)?

    Rafaela asks the girls to buy her Coconut and Papaya juice in a clothesline. Cisneros is concerned about girls getting married to men that will treat them badly and lock them up and not taking care of them like a good man would do.

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  20. I think they act that way because how young they are and how old they are acting/looking. It just hits them that they are so young trying to act so grown up.

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  21. All great thinking so far. What passages stuck out to you that can help you demonstrate your thinking about the struggle to achieve the American Dream and the difficulty women have of achieving independence?

    Do you think the men in these chapters, like Sally's dad, Alicia's dad, and Mamacita's husband, are concerned with their girls' welfare or do they have darker motives? How do you know?

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  22. In her first job why is it that she lets that old man grab her and kiss her?

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  23. it seems like she doesn't get to do the things that other girls get to do,because she is pretty and her husband does not trust other men and sometimes her to be faithful and respectful of there being together. just because she is so beautiful, she does not get to have a fun and fulfilled life.

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  24. Rafaela is exactly like all of the other women in the story (except for Alicia) because they all have been waiting for someone to come and change their life.

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  25. Wouldn't you think the kids would just take the money and run if they knew she was locked up in the room?

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  26. Maybe they act strange with the girls wearing the shoes because they were very nice shoes and that family doesnt have a lot of my so people might have been confused why they were wearing them. Thats what i think

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  27. I agree with the post Samantha made about Sally. And the worst part is, I don't think Sally sees how wrong it it for these boys to treat her this way. Sally seems to think this behavior is just part of a normal life. I don't get why the boys mom didn't care when Esperanza came rushing up three flights of stairs and told her with the last breath she had in her, that her son was bribing and forcing Sally to kiss him. Does she not care about her children like the woman in the vignette "There was an old woman who lived in a shoe"?

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  28. What does Esperanza mean in "Minerva Writes Poems" when she says that Minerva is always sad like a house on fire?

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  29. Yes; these are all about girls' innocence and ill-preparedness for the dangerous world. Great thinking, Linus and Hannah.

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  30. Alex, I think that Esperanza knows that it is impossible to own a nice house on a hill. When her mother talks about how winning the lottery will buy them the house, Esperanza stops listening because she knows it's not going to happen.

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  31. She lets him grab her and kiss her because she thought it would just be a little kiss on the cheek to an old man. Then he grabbed her and she couldn't get away.

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  32. Sally is treated not all that well, her dad won't let her go out and her father says "to be this beautiful is trouble" what does he mean?

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  33. The first physical characteristic that Esperanza notices is when Mamacita is getting in the car with a little boy.

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  34. in no speak english why does the large mother not want her son to speak english, But she wants him to speak spanish even though they live in america. And being able to speak english would be far more helpful.I think that the mother is actually being selfish by not trying to get her son to speak english because that would be more helpful to the son if he was going to live in america

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  35. does she just want to just have her first kiss ?

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  36. Alex, like that you ask about this line. It seems like the image is one of feeling like sadness will burn you up. It hurts so much that it feels like physical pain (fire). Yes, no?

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  37. why dont the woman get to show there true personalitys, it seems like they are all locked up inside and can only show a little personality

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  38. I'm not sure if we have read this far yet. But in the passage beautiful and cruel Esperanza calls herself the ugly daughter. Her lack of self confidence is hurting her more then anything else i think. Why does she talk that way about herself?

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  39. I dont think Esperanza LET that man grab her. I think she was more taken by surprise.

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  40. I would have to agree with you Josie but maybe her husband takes all of it or locks it up with her. Those are possibilities.

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  41. It means that all of the weird guys in this area will come after her and because it is such a bad area a lot of the men around there are registered criminals.

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  42. In "beautiful and Cruel" Esperanza wants to be the one that every girl envies and every guy wants. She wants to be the one in control and not be stepped on like every girl in her neighborhood.

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  43. Andrew, it's an important conflict to wonder about. I think it's an issue of keeping one's culture, which to Mamacita is her identity. Alos, I wonder if she's afraid that if her son learns English, she'll lose her connection to him?

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  44. maybe she does not like the way she looks

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  45. I think it's interesting how in the vignette "Sally" how her father thinks it's trouble to be beautiful. Most girls would feel proud and enjoy feeling beautiful, and not think it's a burden.

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  46. Its amazing how different people treated her because of those shoes. That wouldn't happen where I live!

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  47. yes i agree, it seems like she wont be able to get there to me

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  48. Why are most vignettes about other people than Esperanza? It seems like in each vignette Esperanza learns a lesson about how how other people act. And each one has someone she has met that has done something in there life that they regret.

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  49. Esperanza should gain more self confidence because she thinks that she is not beautiful when she really is!

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  50. I think she doesn't want her son to speak English because she didn't come to America by choice and she feels a very strong pride for her homeland.

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  51. The women can't get up to show their own personalities because it is their job to stay at home, cook, and raise a family.

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  52. And then she said she would sit next to him at lunch everyday just because he kissed her i think.

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  53. "To be this beautiful is trouble" means that because she is so beautiful she is in danger because of all the men that think she is beautiful could try to do things to her.

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  54. the vignette "four skinny trees", i think is foreshadowing that life will be better on mango street because judging what Esperanza said about the trees and how their "only reason is to be and be." this means to be yourself and you'll overcome these struggles in life.

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  55. i think Esperanzas self confidence and cofidence in others is slowly draining, because of the way people treat her and how men take advantage of woman

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  56. In the chapters we have read we have learned that women were treated as though they were property and the don't have a chance of anything. Just like Esperanza's grandmother who was a young independent woman until her grandfather took her and we learn she feels miserable because she didn't get to do anything. Just like Rafaela and sally they are limited to do things.

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  57. Love the thinking you all are doing about power, beauty, and being "locked up". These men seem to be convinced that their girls (children and wives) aren't smart, strong, or honest enough to maintain their integrity and purity. They think that beauty makes women stupid and too vulnerable. Yes, no?
    Also, think about being "locked up" in a metaphorical way. What's Esperanza feeling about her beauty, her self confidence, and her freedom?

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  58. What are holy smokes? Does anyone know?

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  59. I really understood and enjoyed reading "No Speak English" I thought it really showed Esperanza's feeling towards other women, and helped her understand what adult women are like, because she thought she knew, by trying to grow up so fast this whole book.

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  60. In "Beautiful and Cruel" She says "In the movies there is always one with red red lips who is beautiful and cruel" What do you think her definition is of beautiful and cruel?

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  61. because she came to America not by choice she more then likely doesn't want her child to speak english

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  62. Eli they are restricted because they have been forced into that situation like Rosa Vargas. Wouldn't you agree??

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  63. What would you do if you were Esperanza at her job with the creeper man?

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  64. Grant, holy smokes is just an expression like "Oh my gosh"

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  65. The term smart cookie was ironic because she wasn't very smart to drop out of school just because she didn't have nice things.

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  66. Maddie, love that question. I think Cisneros sets up this text to show various possible lives or paths that Esperanza could follow. We, as the reader, get to follow along and weigh in on the best possible choice for her.

    Everyone else--what do you think?

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  67. i think esparanza complains too much about her life and how she looks and what she wants

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  68. in "sire" do you think maybe he looks at Esperanza because he has a crush on her and doesn't want to tell her?

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  69. She wants her child to go back to her homeland someday.

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  70. what is her definition of beautiful and cruel because i don't think that it is the same as mine

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  71. Gabby, love that question. Beautiful and Cruel--having it all, yes? Having the beauty to blind men but the physical and mental power to control them or at least outsmart them.

    What do you all think of that desire of Esperanza's?

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  72. If I were at the job with the creepy dude, I would avoid him at all costs, because he is obviously not safe. Good question Kenzie!

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  73. i thing being beautiful does not mean that you are warinesses vulnerable, it just means that you have to be a little bit more conscious of your surroundings and who around you, beautiful woman are just as vulnerable as ugly woman and being beautiful DOES NOT MAKE YOU VULNERABLE.

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  74. Esperanza feels that her inner beauty is coming out but at the same time her self confidence is rising because she is more willing to take more risks. Also her freedom is growing because she is starting to hang around more and more new people everyday.

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  75. I would probably be scared to go back to the job and try and get another one. I would become even more cautious of strange men.

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  76. yeah i think beautiful and cruel means that she wants men to be atracted to her but then she can reject them

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  77. no because i think guys think that beauty makes women smart and beautiful.

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  78. I agree with Hannah, i feel like "Four Skinny Trees" has a very positive message. "Their strength is a secret. They send ferocious roots beneath the ground." i think this is saying they have a lot of hidden mental strength others wouldn't know about.

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  79. Not all of those people are good influence on her Eli.

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  80. Esperanza notices that Mamacita is a big woman but she's beautiful and Mamacita doesn't know that much English and she is kind of afraid to go out on Mango street because she doesn't know English that well.

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  81. Do you think hanging around new people might be dangerous?

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  82. Why do you think the man in Sire looks at Esperanza that way???? Could he be a pimp??

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  83. no one wants to grow up knowing what is coming up in your life like the fact of the creeper because knowing that i don't want to grow up now and i don't think any other girl would want to either

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  84. i agree with th idea that esparanza complains alot about her life and what she wants and whatnot

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  85. i think throughout this novel, Esperanza is growing inside and out. her hormones are starting to change and she's feeling different feelings about boys now. she's starting to realize how boys can be very weird and not what they seem. but on the other hand she seems to have confidence in her self after looking at sire and making him crash into a parked car.

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  86. As the story goes on and Esperanza grows older, Cisneros, i think becomes more concerned about all the things we have talked about, because Esperanza says things when she is little like having a dream to be off Mango Street, but as she get older her thinking changes. When she was younger she said she wasn't going to turn bad but she is following the same path the girls she talked about went through.

    A connection i have to this, is i have had friends that said they were never going to do bad stuff, but as they get older they end up doing that, and i think its because of the environment they grow up in that changes their thinking and they think they can do that stuff just because they are older.

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  87. i would quit my job and get another one

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  88. Same with me, she seems like shes too lazy to work and find a good job so that the American Dream can come true

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  89. I believe that looking too beautiful could make you vulnerable. Beautiful women are more looked and judged, but the other women who don't care about their appearance aren't going to have that problem.

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  90. Hannah and Skyler, I think your comments could be an answer to Andrew's concern. It does seem, at times, that Esperanza has numerous complaints. But "Four Skinny Trees" does have a positive message that she realizes she has to be brave, self confident, and ferocious to change her situation and her attitude. Sounds like a prediction, true?

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  91. I agree with Abby. I think it's a sad truth that older creepy men do go after women that are beautiful. I think that is does make them more vulnerable, because men see it as an open door. Plus they stick out, some girls don't realize that there are men like this after them until it's too late.

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  92. i think by saying she wants to be beautiful she wants to look as pretty as like Sally and by cruel she means that she wants to be trouble because of her beauty! I mean who doesn't want to be so beautiful that it is trouble?

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  93. Esparanza should look at people who have less then her then still complain about her life because i dont think that she still will

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  94. "Locked up" these girls feel locked up physically and mentally. They feel they don't have the chance to go out and speak how they want to speak and act how they want to act. I think they feel like they don't have as much rights as everyone else.

    With that being said Who thinks Esperanza feels trapped mentally? She obviously is not trapped physically because you read about her and her friends walking all over mango street strutting around like its no body's business. But is she mentally trapped?

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  95. I agree with Hannah and Skyler, I think that "Four Skinny Trees" shows how life is for Esperanza and the other people in these vignettes. "Home. Home. Home is a house in a photograph, a pink house, pink as hollyhocks with lots of startled light." that quote shows what Esperanza and the woman that live on Mango street what the american dream to them is.

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  96. I also agree with Hannah about "four skinny tree's" and also i think its saying that she is like a tree in a way

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  97. I agree with paul, I would get a new job. One that I like.

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